I wish to consult the Jedi Council.
While Padme was giving birth to Luke and Leia, Anakin was simultaneously being changed into Darth Vader -and suffering greatly in the process.
Questions: Is Padme's death generally attributed to complications in child birth or was her emotional connection with Anakin responsible? While he was in agony did he inadvertently lash out with the dark side of the force and cause her death? What is the generally accepted belief?
As per the script:
MEDICAL DROID: "We don't know why. She has lost the will to live."
LOL!!!! Lame! Not complications from the pregnancy. I suppose you can lay the blame on Anakin force choke caused some kind of fatal damage, or she just died of a broken heart. ::)
What made me ask this question is that the Emperor himself tells Anakin (now Vader) that he is resopnsible for Padme's death. I've been wondering if he is being metaphorical or literal. Or was he lying in an effort to pull Vader deeper into his clutches?
Quote from: ChadH on December 09, 2009, 10:39:09 AM
What made me ask this question is that the Emperor himself tells Anakin (now Vader) that he is resopnsible for Padme's death. I've been wondering if he is being metaphorical or literal. Or was he lying in an effort to pull Vader deeper into his clutches?
I would say the later. I think Lucas had the intention of laying Padme's death directly on Anakin. But he sort of danced around that, maybe he felt it would be too graphic or evil at that point in the story, but this comment by Palpatine does hint to that fact.
I consider Star Wars a science-fantasy, in its frame of reference destiny is a legitimate concept. Anakins fate is to bring balance to the force, so he had to become Vader and for that it was necessary for Padamé to die. (Their future was written, literally, we've seen the movies!)
I would have preferred it if Anakin himself would have killed her in his desperate attempts to save her, perfect ending for a tragedy. Lashing out with the dark side would have been great.
Mike recently wrote how heartbroken his kid was that Anakin would become Vader. I think Bryan is right, Lucas might have had intentions to make Anakin murder Padamé, but then he realized he wasn't making a Shakespearan tragedy but a movie that should be suitable for a very young audience and they already witnessed him killing a whole Jedi school.
I've always felt it was a little bit of a few things that killed Padme. She had basically seen the man she loves go off the deep end and almost kill her. She was VERY pregnant at the time with twins and physically that is very difficult. I think there were some complications during the delivery, but ultimately she had lost the will to go on. The mind is a powerful thing (maybe even more in Star Wars) and it can certainly impact your physical well being. If you become that overwhelmed and saddened by something, it will cause you problems. Of course, it's a bit melodramatic and certainly convenient for the movies, but hey, it's a space fantasy.
Quote from: Rico on December 09, 2009, 12:19:35 PM
(...) The mind is a powerful thing (maybe even more in Star Wars) and it can certainly impact your physical well being. (...)
That's an excellent point! :)
Quote from: ChadH on December 09, 2009, 10:39:09 AM
What made me ask this question is that the Emperor himself tells Anakin (now Vader) that he is resopnsible for Padme's death. I've been wondering if he is being metaphorical or literal. Or was he lying in an effort to pull Vader deeper into his clutches?
Probably the Emperor meant the same thing my wife means when my kids are misbehaving, and she says to me "Look what you did to me."
Quote from: cosmonaut on December 09, 2009, 11:55:01 AM
he realized he wasn't making a Shakespearan tragedy but a movie that should be suitable for a very young audience and they already witnessed him killing a whole Jedi school.
I think you are spot on with this observation. Physically killing his wife and the mother of his children, would make accepting his 'redemption' at the end of the series that much more dificult.
Quote from: Rico on December 09, 2009, 12:19:35 PM
I've always felt it was a little bit of a few things that killed Padme. She had basically seen the man she loves go off the deep end and almost kill her. She was VERY pregnant at the time with twins and physically that is very difficult. I think there were some complications during the delivery, but ultimately she had lost the will to go on. The mind is a powerful thing (maybe even more in Star Wars) and it can certainly impact your physical well being. If you become that overwhelmed and saddened by something, it will cause you problems. Of course, it's a bit melodramatic and certainly convenient for the movies, but hey, it's a space fantasy.
Your very much right Rico. The mind is incredibly powerful as the body cannot stop it. (well, short of the whole, you'll breath on your own thing). People kill themselves just by their own thoughts. Those thoughts ultimately kill themselves so its not hard to grasp Padme's death happening the way it did.
King
...I still contend it was kind of weak and could have been much more compelling, but I can say that about all the prequals content...
Quote from: Bryancd on December 09, 2009, 04:05:46 PM
...I still contend it was kind of weak and could have been much more compelling, but I can say that about all the prequels content...
No one arguing that point! :)
There is another reason I don't like it. Could you imagine a male character die of a broken heart?
She was raised to rule, she should have been a strong female character, yet she is strangely passive and clueless. :(
Quote from: Bryancd on December 09, 2009, 04:05:46 PM
...I still contend it was kind of weak and could have been much more compelling, but I can say that about all the prequals content...
Exactly. I actually laughed when the medical droid said that....
Quote from: Blackride on December 10, 2009, 04:46:34 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on December 09, 2009, 04:05:46 PM
...I still contend it was kind of weak and could have been much more compelling, but I can say that about all the prequals content...
Exactly. I actually laughed when the medical droid said that....
Almost as funny as the Robot Chicken spoof "Dr. Ball"! LOL!
Oddly, I've always assumed that Palpetine's statement was simply that. A statement.
I'd assumed he had no idea (nor concern) as to whether she was alive or dead but was simply spinning a tale to further bend Vader to his will.
Quote from: Feathers on December 21, 2009, 09:33:11 AM
Oddly, I've always assumed that Palpetine's statement was simply that. A statement.
I'd assumed he had no idea (nor concern) as to whether she was alive or dead but was simply spinning a tale to further bend Vader to his will.
Same here. I thought it was to get a reaction and nothing more.
Even if she was alive and found later ... Vader could be told that the Jedi lied to him to keep him from his wife and kids.
A win/win in the big book of evil.
Quote from: Feathers on December 21, 2009, 09:33:11 AM
Oddly, I've always assumed that Palpetine's statement was simply that. A statement.
I'd assumed he had no idea (nor concern) as to whether she was alive or dead but was simply spinning a tale to further bend Vader to his will.
That was my assumption as well. Recently, after seeing the last bit of the film again, it occurred to me that I may have been mistaken and that Anakin/Vader was directly responsible.
It got me thinking and so I decided to ask the rest of the forum (people who are more current on the lore and back history) to find out if the general impression was that Vader had inadvertently killed her and I was simply too thick headed to have picked it up the first time around. :)
The whole thing also raises other questions for me, but I'll mull those over in my head a bit before I waste anyones time.