iPad mini?

[Bryancd]

Kindle Fire has not made any meaningful impact in tablet sales when compared to the iPad and there's not one analysts on the street who considers it true competition in the broader tablet market. Now that's not an indictment of the product or the screen size per se, it's just doesn't have the functionality and app support that the iPad has. So by default, the iPad massive sales advbantage makes the form factor the dominant one. So sonsumers aren't clamoring for a smaller screen size, they are buying Kindles because they are cheaper, but Apple has no need to try and compete there beciuse the iPad is such a huge success.

[Rico]

Bryan, smaller screens allow them to make these devices cheaper.  They go hand-in-hand.  And I think you need to look up Kindle Fire sales figures again.  I know several people that bought one and didn't buy an iPad due to the price difference.  I really don't see how you don't think Apple isn't working on trying to capture that part of the market.

[QuadShot]

:) You crack me up Bryan, but in all seriousness, I wouldn't like to see a smaller iPad. Kind of defeats the purpose for me. I may be able to see a (small) market for one but not for us "old...er" types.

[Bryancd]

And I think you need to look up Kindle Fire sales figures again. 

Really?! Wow, if you actually know the true sales figures please share because Amazon doesn't release them! Estimates for last quarter were about 6 million. During the same period Apple sold 15 million iPads. Kindle fire is not a true tablet competitior. Now, the Samsung Galaxy is and if they satrt to broaden into a smaller screen size to try and offer a discounted device, that might be incentive for Apple to develop a similar offering. But I explained all the reasons why I have concluded what I have a few posts ago.

[Jobydrone]

The competition is not between the Kindle Fire and the iPad, but the Apple Store and the Amazon Store.  How many of those 6 million estimated people who bought the Fire also have an iPad?  I'd say less than 1%, if any at all.  That's six MILLION people that aren't using the Apple store for purchases that are most likely available there as well as on Amazon.  I don't believe that Apple is going to be comfortable much longer watching all that money at stake just fly out the window.  Especially when the buzz and excitement over the new Kindle Fire starts growing. 

[QuadShot]

But Joby, how many of those 6 MILLION have iTunes accounts and use the Apple Store/iTunes Store? Or have iPhones and use the Apple Store? This is really not an easy debate to have, and as always will come down to personal preference. We like Apple so we're going to defend and come up with all kinds of stats to prove Apple is the best. Someone else likes the Kindle and will do the same. It's really an exercise in futility to debate this on and on. I say WE...the Treks In Sci Fi community, build our OWN tablet and rule the world. :)

[Bryancd]

The competition is not between the Kindle Fire and the iPad, but the Apple Store and the Amazon Store.  How many of those 6 million estimated people who bought the Fire also have an iPad?  I'd say less than 1%, if any at all.  That's six MILLION people that aren't using the Apple store for purchases that are most likely available there as well as on Amazon.  I don't believe that Apple is going to be comfortable much longer watching all that money at stake just fly out the window.  Especially when the buzz and excitement over the new Kindle Fire starts growing. 

Well, beyond music and video content, there's very little to compare between the Apple store and Amazon. It's an interesting supposition but I don't think it's on the mark. Amazon uses the Fire as a gateway to the store. I mentioned when the Fire was released it wasn't designed to be a true tablet device but as a tool to drive Amazon store business. Apple is not looking to compete with Amazon as a retailer of goods. When you say Apple is losing revenue to Amazon, I'm not sure what you mean. How many Amazon buyers also use iTunes is the real question. The iPad and other fully functional tablets are portable media devices with massive application support that makes them very diverse in their uses. The Fire is much more limited in fuction and MUCh more limited in app support. Again, I think for what it does it's great and the price is terrific. But this isn't about Fire vs. iPad, that battle for now has already been decided in the Pads favor. The question is does Apple feel that the Fire's screen size and price point is a place they feel they need to take the iPad. I would suggest based on the reason i put forth, the answer right now is no.

[Jobydrone]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.  Who wants to put a little gentleman's wager on it?

And the TrekSF pad could never be a true competitor to the iPad, so forget it ;)

[Bryancd]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.  Who wants to put a little gentleman's wager on it?

I'm placing REAL money bets on it everyday, my friend. :) I am long Apple but not Amazon right now, but not because of concern over the Kindle Fire. I think Amazon is taking a bath on Amazon Prime and I am concerned as to how that will continue to impact their earnings. In the meantime, I love Prime! Gain, i am more interested in watching what Samsung does then Amazon inregards to the direction of the tablet market.

And this is why I bristle a bit when some here try and portray my opinions on this subject as being an Apple fanboy. I'm not, I love their products but I am far more interested in making investment return for my clients. My opinions on Apple are purley driven by that consideration. I like Apple's story and the growth prospects of the company and the shares. When a day arrives that the story is not as compelling, i will be the first to say so.

[Jobydrone]

The competition is not between the Kindle Fire and the iPad, but the Apple Store and the Amazon Store.  How many of those 6 million estimated people who bought the Fire also have an iPad?  I'd say less than 1%, if any at all.  That's six MILLION people that aren't using the Apple store for purchases that are most likely available there as well as on Amazon.  I don't believe that Apple is going to be comfortable much longer watching all that money at stake just fly out the window.  Especially when the buzz and excitement over the new Kindle Fire starts growing. 

Well, beyond music and video content, there's very little to compare between the Apple store and Amazon. It's an interesting supposition but I don't think it's on the mark. Amazon uses the Fire as a gateway to the store. I mentioned when the Fire was released it wasn't designed to be a true tablet device but as a tool to drive Amazon store business. Apple is not looking to compete with Amazon as a retailer of goods. When you say Apple is losing revenue to Amazon, I'm not sure what you mean. How many Amazon buyers also use iTunes is the real question. The iPad and other fully functional tablets are portable media devices with massive application support that makes them very diverse in their uses. The Fire is much more limited in fuction and MUCh more limited in app support. Again, I think for what it does it's great and the price is terrific. But this isn't about Fire vs. iPad, that battle for now has already been decided in the Pads favor. The question is does Apple feel that the Fire's screen size and price point is a place they feel they need to take the iPad. I would suggest based on the reason i put forth, the answer right now is no.

You're forgetting the ebook store which I'm certain provides a HUGE amount of money for both Apple and Amazon and that amount is just going to grow larger every year.  I don't think in general most people want a separate movie player, game machine, ebook reader, magazine subscription device, etc etc.  Most people aren't buying a Kindle for reading and an iPad for everything else.  If they have an iPad they're buying their content on the Apple store.  If they havea Kindle they're buying their content onthe Amazon store.  It's simple.  I agree with everything you're saying about how much better the iPad is at what it does...I wouldn't trade my iPad 1 for a Kindle Fire even if you paid me to do it.  But there's clearly alot of people that don't want or need all the functionality you're describing at $500 but will pay $250-300 for a smaller device to check their email, buy and read books, buy and rent movies, and surf the web.  Apple should and will try to capture those people.

[Bryancd]

Agreed, there is absolutely a market for a 4200-$300 portable device with a smaller screen and less functionality. And it could be a good sized market. The question of thtis thread is does Apple feel compelled to compete there. I presented my analysis as why I don't believe they will.  And e-books are a TINY portion of iTunes sales.

[Jobydrone]

And e-books are a TINY portion of iTunes sales.

Yes I think ebooks are in a position now where digital music was about five years ago.  But considering the way the number of people I see using ebook readers (of all brands) on my morning commute every day is increasing so dramatically, it's only a matter of time before those sales numbers grow much much larger for all the major sellers.

[Bryancd]

I think Apple knows that a backlit screen device will never be as popular for e-book reading as a Nook or Kindle device. That market will never be one they will be competitive in.

[QuadShot]

FART....

[Rico]

Go get 'em Joby!  Because I give up.