What would it take to start the Federation today?

[space_invader64]

I am a non-sports fan in Oklahoma.  It's like being an athiest in Oklahoma.  I often joke that college football is the state religion.

[Jen]

I am a non-sports fan in Oklahoma.  It's like being an athiest in Oklahoma.  I often joke that college football is the state religion.

Same here in Texas (Sooners and Longhorns are big rivals as I'm sure you know Space_Invader) .

I don't know any man in my family who hasn't played high school football. Luckily I married one who doesn't eat, sleep and dream sports.

[Bryancd]

Ahh, but you need to consider what about us as a species MAKES is inclined towards confrontation? Is it confrontation simply for the sake of an argument or fight or is it something more? I would posit that we are violent by nature. We can nurture and attempt to intellectualize that out of us, but it will take a lot longer than a couple of hundred years until stardate whatever to do it, to our misfortune. Violence is what kept us alive for millions of years and that innate part of us can't be dismissed just because we have  come to control all we survey. That's our problem, we were never meant to be IN control of anything, we just happen to end up at the top of the food chain. Lucky us!
No, for mankind to truly be what G.R. envisioned, we need to see beyond ourselves in a profound way. Aliens aren't a bad idea, we may shoot first, but we would do it as a species for once in our evolution. Global destruction could be another, but we would be quick to fall into anarchy and survival mode. I don't know, may be a tough bill to fill.
Ultimately, we need to consider these issues with an honest appraisal of who we REALLY are. Religion, politics, money, sports are just affects of what dwells beneath.

[X]

In the course of my life, I have been a member of no less than 12 different faiths/belief systems. I did it not because I was confused about what I wanted, but because I was sure that I wouldn't know what I wanted unless I became a part of that faith to see what was going on with it. I needed to see where my views agreed with theirs and where they were not in agreement.

I practiced the faiths of the Torah, the Gospels, and the Koran. I also studied several branches of Wicca and tried Budhism.

In the end, I learned that as much as these faiths are alike, it is the differences that people fight over. Rather than accept the little differences, too many people push them as divides that can't be crossed.

While religion isn't evil, there has been a lot of evil done in the name of religion. All of this because of small differences that rational people should have been able to accept or ignore. From my own experiences, I see people that would rather assume things about another faith with no proof rather than do the work to learn about that other faith.

Sure religious tolerance won't create Utopia, but  I can assure you that by doing the things that it takes to reach that tolerance (i.e. taking the time to learn about things outside of your comfort zone) it will give us the tools to create Utopia. As soon as people begin to see that their religion won't implode because someone has a different view, that agression can be channeled into progress toward a better society.

I think that it would also help in reminding people that what happen in another person's bedroom is none of their business.

When humans start to accept that it's okay for others to be different from them and they won't die because people have a different lifestyle, faith, race, or nationality, then we can progress to something better than yesterday and reach for a better tomorrow.

[space_invader64]

Jen, I think it is just nuts that the football rivalry caused us to have to change our spring break to a diffrent week as yours to prevent us from fighting.

I went out for basketball in high school but just wasn't any good at it.  I compeated in quiz bowl.  It was fun.  I went to college ECU in Ada Oklahoma.  I only went to ball games if I was filming.

People get so frustrated at my lack of intrest in who wins or loses a ball game.  I'm only interested if I know people playing the game.  if not, I don't see any reason to care.  People think I need to care if OU wins or losses every Saturday.  I never went to that school, don't know anyone there, and personally I have some thoughts on this.  I know this is blasphemy in the state of Oklahoma but I don't agree with athletic scholarships.  To me, it's paying people to play a game.  I made better grades than the ball players, why do they get so much more money than me?  Because the point of college to most people in our area is to have a better team than the other schools.  That way we can score points that don't really mean anything more than our rivals.  That way, we can entertain fans who buy the school's merch so we can have more money.  Does that mean that money will be used to lower the tuition for the non athletes?  Of coarse not!  Doesn't work that way.   Tution goes up if your team is the national champions!

I'm sure if aliens are watching they are going to mistake our sports fandom for a religion.  Think about it.  They dress alike, congregate in large stadiums and chant.

[Jen]

With all due respect, I don't need to practice any other faith to accept people for who they are, and I know many people who are the same way I am. Not all faithful people are religious zealots and extremists who want to turn their back on you, or wipe you off the face of the Earth because you don't believe in who or what they do. As you said, there has been a lot of evil done in the name of religion... It only takes a few bad seeds to give us faithful folks a bad name. Religion has given those types of people (extremists and zealots), throughout history, a chance at power... and they are twisted by power... and that's another thing that people fight over. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Back to the topic of the Federation. I believe the main point they constantly make in Star Trek is that the Federation came about when Earth gave up violence. I don't think that just pertains to nations and religious groups... I think that means Mr. Joe Blow, who may like your tennis shoes, doesn't try to shoot you to steal them in the future. It means Mr. Smith doesn't beat Mrs. Smith because she didn't make his dinner fast enough. And Mrs. Smith doesn't lock her kids in a cage in their bed room closet when their "bad".  It means no one sleeps on the street at night... and people have equal access to education, medicine and jobs.

[Jen]

I hear you. I never went to a single football game at Texas State. That astonishes my fellow alumni here at work. They can't believe I don't even know the alma matter. I know my high school alma matter...went to all those games. But I went to college to learn stuff. Football is great... but I don't have dreams about it. My brother was a Corner Back and a tight end in high school. He also played special teams on kick off return. He loved "hitting" guys at full speed. He has a great throwing arm and used to tell his friends, when they asked who taught him to throw, that his big sister did. If the ball is small enough, I can still throw a perfect spiral and hit him in the numbers. Oh... the Dallas Cowboys are kicking butt apparently. Woot?  :D

Jen, I think it is just nuts that the football rivalry caused us to have to change our spring break to a diffrent week as yours to prevent us from fighting.

I went out for basketball in high school but just wasn't any good at it.  I compeated in quiz bowl.  It was fun.  I went to college ECU in Ada Oklahoma.  I only went to ball games if I was filming.

People get so frustrated at my lack of intrest in who wins or loses a ball game.  I'm only interested if I know people playing the game.  if not, I don't see any reason to care.  People think I need to care if OU wins or losses every Saturday.  I never went to that school, don't know anyone there, and personally I have some thoughts on this.  I know this is blasphemy in the state of Oklahoma but I don't agree with athletic scholarships.  To me, it's paying people to play a game.  I made better grades than the ball players, why do they get so much more money than me?  Because the point of college to most people in our area is to have a better team than the other schools.  That way we can score points that don't really mean anything more than our rivals.  That way, we can entertain fans who buy the school's merch so we can have more money.  Does that mean that money will be used to lower the tuition for the non athletes?  Of coarse not!  Doesn't work that way.   Tution goes up if your team is the national champions!

I'm sure if aliens are watching they are going to mistake our sports fandom for a religion.  Think about it.  They dress alike, congregate in large stadiums and chant.

[Blackride]

I know this is blasphemy in the state of Oklahoma but I don't agree with athletic scholarships.  To me, it's paying people to play a game.  I made better grades than the ball players, why do they get so much more money than me?  Because the point of college to most people in our area is to have a better team than the other schools.  That way we can score points that don't really mean anything more than our rivals.  That way, we can entertain fans who buy the school's merch so we can have more money.  Does that mean that money will be used to lower the tuition for the non athletes?  Of coarse not!  Doesn't work that way.   Tution goes up if your team is the national champions!

I'm sure if aliens are watching they are going to mistake our sports fandom for a religion.  Think about it.  They dress alike, congregate in large stadiums and chant.

Honestly I can answer some of this as my father is one of the deans working up here at a college in Ohio. Sports bring in ton of money for the university. Witout them your tuition would most likely be out of control due to the lack of money coming from other areas. Kids get the scholarships because people pay to see them. Nobody paid to watch me debate Union vs. Non-Union case studies in class :)

There are so many factors in why your tuition goes up it's not even funny. State funding itself changes by the quarter and during the last few years it has been constantly cut, hence the reason for rising tuitions at almost all state funded universities.

I am not trying to argue with you. I am just trying to give you some insight as I asked these same questions a long time ago when I was a freshman.

[Blackride]

Back to the main topic....

I think that the very heart of what humans are make them different. Religion is always the easiest for people to point at but I would contend that they actually pull people together and guide them down a better understanding of their humanity. Yes, you can point to bad things brought in by religion ( 1095 Pope Urban II ), but that is not the main reason in my opinion to blame them for people being seperated.

I personally love watching Star Trek but do not really like the Federation from the conceptual level. Utopia's are easy to explain on TV but actually getting to one I do not think will happen. There are simply too many people in the world that want to be different and go their own way. To achieve a utopia you would have to come up with a perfect form of goverment and society where everyone wants to be part of it , which I think is near impossible.

Just my thoughts...

[Jen]

Is the federation a true utopia? I personally like diversity and I think that would be lost in a utopian society. I think of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World when I hear that word.  In his  novel "humanity is carefree, healthy and technologically advanced. Warfare and poverty have been eliminated and everyone is permanently happy due to government-provided stimulation. The irony is that all of these things have been achieved by eliminating many things that humans consider to be central to their identity — family, culture, art, literature, science, religion, and philosophy."

In the Federation, on Earth, people still have their identity, family, culture, art literature and science (only aliens seem to be religious). I'm not sure that cultures would be distinct anymore if borders were gone. And when I say borders, I'm specifically referring to areas, not necessarily the line in the sand that people can't cross at will. So it always seemed strange that some of the Terran characters were so immersed in their distinct cultures. I loved that aspect of Star Trek... I think it adds to the show and the message that people can live in harmony in the future, but I wonder if cultural distinction would be eliminated in a real life Federation? Accents would be lost, unique cultures would be lost or blended until unrecognizable. Not that any of that is undesirable, but I like the diversity, it makes people interesting.

So, while I still hope that we one day we can achieve many of the things the Federation has obtained... I don't want to sacrifice diversity for it. If we could keep that aspect and somehow achieve the rest of what is appealing and desirable in the Star Trek Universe, I would be cool with that.

Again, the federation is a wonderful dream... yeah, ok, it doesn't look like a goal we can realize right now or in the time frame the Star Trek writers imagined, but it won't hurt anyone to aspire to it.

[X]

Jen, I think it is just nuts that the football rivalry caused us to have to change our spring break to a diffrent week as yours to prevent us from fighting.

You know  ... I don't bring this up much because of the athletic situation, but I grew up between Edmond Oklahoma and Houston Texas. I traveled between the two rotating every two years or so until adulthood.

There is nothing like the Oklahoma/Texas rivalry. I think it's because Oklahoma is the one state that remembers that they were just a piece of Texas that was trimmed off when she joined the Union. The other states forget that some times and Oklahoma just wants to prove they they aren't in Texas' shadow.


Native Oklahoma .... I miss my Driver's license that said that!

[iceman]

Very well put

[space_invader64]

Oklahoma's mascot is the sooner, the guys who cheated in the land run so Sooners are literally Cheaters!!!

And Oklahoma has two airports named after men who died in plane crashes!

[Jen]

And Oklahoma has two airports named after men who died in plane crashes!

No way!  :o

[X]

This is so true!