Taking Wing - Week one Chapters 1-6 - discussion starts Jan 7th

[Duffster]

Since this is a paperback, maybe we want to increase the pages per week. Lets see how the first week goes.

[wraith1701]

That might not be a bad idea.  It's a very quick read; looks like I'll be finished reading it this weekend.

[billybob476]

Maybe kick it up to 150 pages/week?

[Ktrek]

If you kicked it up to 114 pages that puts you through chapter 7 for the first week. Chapter 14 for the second week and finishing up the 3rd week. Makes it a little more equal then anyway. Or if you want something even simpler then you could just do a chapter divide by 3 since there are 24 chapters and go 8, 16, 24.

Anyway, I'm eager to start discussing the book and I hope that everyone will get involved. I think the book provides fodder for some thought provoking matter.

Kevin

[billybob476]

Bantha fodder?

[wraith1701]

Bantha fodder?

LOL! :roflmao   E-Chuta!

So; is everyone ready to start discussing the book?  I'm chompin' at the bit!

[Ktrek]

If we are ready to discuss the books I would first of all like to say that I enjoy the book for the most part and the voicing is mostly spot on.

What does everyone think about the diversity of species on the ship? Humans are the minority for the first time on a Federation vessel.

What does everyone think of Dr. Ree? I think a dinosaur like alien stretches my imagination and believability but I do like his sense of humor. However, don't you get the feeling that he uses humor to try and befriend people because he is aware he makes people uncomfortable and so he has resorted to humor to help with his own insecurities?

What Trek continuity things do you think are cool in this first section? Admiral James Leonard Akaar is kind of a cool touch as he was just a baby in the TOS episode Friday's Child when we last saw him. Of course anyone familiar with the more recent Star Trek books would know that he has appeared in several of them. Most prominently I suppose in the DS9 relaunch books.

There are a lot things we can discuss in depth about this book as it does provide a lot to think about.

Kevin

[wraith1701]

Thanks for getting the ball rolling, ktrek!

I enjoyed the book as well, and I agree; the characters for the most part "sounded" like I expected them to sound.  I was never a fan of Riker, but the authors of this book reminded me of a lot of the character's positive traits.  They managed to pull me into the "Pro-Riker" camp.  I thought it was interesting to see Riker deal with his insecurities about commanding his first Starship, and it was cool to see how quickly he grew into his new role.

Regarding LJ Akaar- I was first introduced to him in the DS9 Mission Gamma books.  I picked up on the fact that he had a long history in Starfleet, but it never clicked with me that he was the baby from Friday's child!  Thanks for bringing this to my attention; very cool! 

As far as the makeup of the Titan's crew is concerned, I liked the diversity.  You bring up a good point: even though Starfleet is part of a multi-species Federation of Planets, humans   always seem to be in the majority.  It was refreshing to see a crew that comes close to reflecting the diversity of the UFP. 

Speaking of diversity, Dr. Ree is one of my new favorite Star Trek characters.   After all, dinosaurs are just plain cool.  I have to empathize with the crew's reaction to him, however.   I'd feel kind of weird having a sentient velociraptor with razor-sharp claws and fangs giving me a physical check-up. :)

[Ktrek]

Speaking of the diversity of the UFP I don't think that we can discuss this book properly without discussing diversity. Diversity seems to be a major theme of Taking Wing and in order to appreciate that I think we have to evaluate what we each think about diversity? I used to work for a university where diversity training was a big deal and I'm sure that most people in the professional world now have to have diversity training.

Is diversity training right and ethical or is it the world system imposing values upon us? Do you think diversity training is ethical/moral or just a bunch of hooey? Do we as Americans (who I assume are the majority of us in this group) need to think beyond our borders and try to embrace what other nations, political positions or even religion/moral worldview,  have to offer? If you are a strong Christian for instance, or a Muslim, can you accept those outside your belief system for who and what they are or is there a need to convert and change people? And if so why? What about sexual orientation? We see soon on that the Titan has a gay crew member and was a former life partner to Commander Hawk before he was killed in FIRST CONTACT. Is it necessary to bring a gay character into the books at all? Is it too offensive to even talk about?

Anyway, there a hundreds of questions that we can ask each other about this book and not allow it to just be another "fictional" read but to really explore what the authors wanted us to think about and deal with in our lives. If a book does not do so IMHO it has not served a worthy purpose at all. I enjoy the fact that Star Trek as a series, movies and now books challenges what it means to be a human. It may be hard and sometimes hurt for us to re-evaluate ourselves but if we are to grow in our humanity it must be so.

Kevin

[Rico]

I like the diversity of the crew but I have to say in the early part of the book I had trouble telling who was who.  A lot of secondary characters are introduced in a short span of time.  I can understand why that was the case but I needed a bit more background to keep track of them all in my head as I read along.  I think Riker as a captain now works very well.  I always thought on TNG that when he took command it seemed to fit him.  Plus he is different enough from Picard's style to have his own unique take on command - eventually.

As far as the diversity issue in the book I pretty much liked it.  Star Trek has always been about that and it certainly fits.  For me personally I have always tried to embrace different cultures and people of different races and beliefs.  I really enjoy being able to travel to places far away when I can.  I remember in college I had a friend that was dating an African American girl (he was white).  Now I grew up in Detroit and this might not seem like a big thing now in 2008 but, years ago even when I was in college it was rather unique.  And I'm happy to say that I had no issue at all with it.  She was a great person and that's how I related to her, not the color of her skin.  Anyway, just thought I'd pass that story along.  Frankly, there are people that are good and bad in every culture and place I have been.  And in a way that's what diversity is all about.  But I try very hard to not prejudge anyone based on their culture or race, etc.  I get to know them before I make up my mind on what type of person they are.  Watching Star Trek at a young age and through the years I think has helped me greatly in accepting others and that is one of the great things about the series that I love.

[Jen]

I don't judge people by their skin color and I have friends who have beliefs that are not inline with my own. My mother taught my siblings and I a line of scripture that has stuck with me since I was a little girl: Judge not lest ye be judged. It has always stuck with me, though it is sometimes difficult to adhere to...I'm not perfect.  I think everyone would benefit from learning, understanding and applying it to their daily lives.

I like the diversity in the book, but I agree with Rico. For example...Until the dino doc came into the room and introduced himself, I had trouble knowing if Nurse Ogowa was examining Doctor Ree or the Shipwright from Mars. By the way, I like the description the authors give to the reptilian CMO—I'm not familiar with the alien and it helps me to picture him better. They continue to describe the way he blinks his eyes, speaks and laughs...all these things add dimension to the character. I wish they would do that more with the other aliens. They all need the same attention.

As an aside, I didn't get why it was funny that Troi didn't warn Riker enough about the doctor's species...it didn't seem like something that would be an issue, but it didn't last long so I let it go. And the reactions to the doctor went on too long... I get it... he's weird looking.  :D

[Ktrek]

As an aside, I didn't get why it was funny that Troi didn't warn Riker enough about the doctor's species...it didn't seem like something that would be an issue, but it didn't last long so I let it go. And the reactions to the doctor went on too long... I get it... he's weird looking.  :D

Jen,

Perhaps if you imagine a velociraptor from Jurassic Park holding out his hand to shake yours you might have a more vivid picture? That's why for me Dr. Ree seems a little over the top as do a couple of other characters. It's almost like the authors were trying too hard to emphasize diversity and to me it feels "forced". Not forced on us but forced into the story.

In the Star Trek universe we find that the majority of life forms were humanoid in appearance and there was reason for that. It was explained that the originators (I can't recall their name for the life of me) seeded their DNA across the galaxy. It stands to reason then that all intelligent lifeforms would probably develop in similar patterns although with unique distinctions. I find it improbable that dinosaurs could have evolved to sentient existence. But like I said I do like how they are using Dr. Ree for some comic relief.

It's also revealed that this is the first crew of it's kind in Starfleet and is somewhat of an experiment. The advantage I see to having such a diverse crew is that it makes the internal struggles on the ship as interesting as the external conflicts (Where we also have diversity...Romulans, Klingons and Remans).

One thing that I think has to be asked though is does the diversity take away from some of the storytelling? A lot of time is used in the book to talk about how certain species are accommodated for in order for them to fit it. I suppose this has it's parallels in our society with persons we would consider handicapped, who if they are given the proper allowances can function almost as well and in some ways better than those of us who are not.

Anyway, this is turning out to be a great discussion so far. I appreciate reading everyone's thoughts and perhaps between all of us we can each come away from this book with a better appreciation for each other as well.

Kevin

[Jen]

Hi Ktrek,

Yep, I agree... I wish Dr. Ree wasn't a creature we can relate to in a physical sense. But it's OK... I like him. I just didn't think Riker should have been surprised by Ree's appearance. I guess all those years on the Enterprise D, meeting fish people who eat their food from barrels, murderous oil blobs, and hairy Cousin It's that morph into grandmas... are fairly benign when compared to creatures that look like a number of Earth reptiles from his home planet.  :D

Really, it was only this small little insignificant scene at the beginning of the book, between Dianna and Riker, that didn't work for me. Why would he be annoyed that his wife didn't tell him the doctor was a reptile?  He's the captain and he's the one who choose the CMO. I think the workaholic Riker we all know, would have done his due diligence and realized that the 'renowned doctor' he selected, was a big...creepy... lizard. That scene just seemed to me like a weak excuse for the authors to get a shocked reaction out of Riker and set up an exchange between husband and wife....which I thought fell a little flat.  "I'll get you for this?" That was his reaction to learning the CMO was odd looking? Why was he annoyed? Was it because he didn't like being surprised, didn't like that his wife failed to point out his oversight verbally, or was it because he didn't like the fact that his CMO was a lizard? I wasn't sure where they were going for with that exchange...but I'm pretty sure the Riker we know doesn't care that his CMO has scales—he's use to that sort of thing.  But, that's just my opinion of that one scene. The rest is great so far. :)

[Ktrek]

You know what Jen? That would make a great question for Rico to ask Andy Mangels. You maybe should word it and submit in a PM to him.

You make a great point in that it's inconceivable that Riker would not have already known about Dr. Ree since he was the one who has compiled the ship's roster. I guess I just played along with it because I saw it as an opportunity for a little husband/wife banter.

Another continuity thread is Nurse Alyssa Ogawa already mentioned by Jen above, but what she didn't mention is the fact that Ogawa has a son Noah from her deceased husband Lieutenant Andrew Powell. Although Ogawa's relationship with Lt. Powell is mentioned frequently, in the 7th season of TNG, we never see him onscreen (with the exception of the possibility of the incident in the "alternate timeline" in the TNG episode "All Good Things", he may be seen there with her when she lost the baby. So now their son Noah is 7 years old when the Titan's mission begins.

I can post other continuities in the series but I'd like to hear what things others have noticed.

Kevin

[Geekyfanboy]

I am so bummed that I can't contribute to his conversation.. I have to pick up this book.. sounds fantastic.