Taking Wing - Week two - Chapters 7-15 Discussion starts week of Jan 14th

[Duffster]

A few more chapters this week as it's a quick read.


Duffster

[Duffster]

Well, I gotta say I am really enjoying this book, much more then I thought. I think my favorite parts so far was the chapter that was entirely in the mess hall. Wow there are a lot of different races on this ship. I think this series has a lot of potential.

Duffster

[billybob476]

About the mess hall. I loved that part as well but I found one this odd. Why have an actual chef? I get the inclusion of a mess hall. The crew needs a place where they can relax and socialize. But why waste resources on someone to prepare food when all you really need to do is ask the replicator?

[Rico]

I like the idea of a chef.  Voyager had one with Neelix.  Perhaps the chef is also in charge of the food replicators and making sure things turn out the way they should.  Also, at times they have mentioned that replicators are only so good and maybe can't replicate every food specialty.  Anyway, I think it's kind of a ship tradition to have chef that may of just held over into the 24th century.

[billybob476]

I guess the reason it stuck out is that the Enterprise, the flagship of the fleet, never had a chef. Voyager was obviously an exceptional case, I'm not sure if they left DS9 on their maiden Voyage to the badlands with a chef on board.

[Rico]

Just keep in mind you never maybe heard about a chef in TNG.  Doesn't mean they wouldn't have one with 1000 people aboard.  I think they would have some type of "food expert" with all the different species they might have contact with.  Plus TNG did have Guinan eventually.  And what if all those replicators break?  Someone needs to know how to boil an egg.  ;)

[jedijeff]

I think the mess hall was a cool idea as well, and manned with a Chef. I guess it is no different having a Chef then Bartenders, as they could easily replicate the drinks as well, but a Bartender can add their own special touches. With having a buffet setup, even though some of the food might be replicated, the chef might be the one to determine what might be on the menu for the Buffet. Also might be needed for some of those special requests, such as Dr Ree's freshly killed Targ, guess that one cannot be replicated so easily ;)

[billybob476]

Now that I think about it, it's a bit odd that TNG never mentioned a galley and kitchen staff. As the flagship, the Enterprise D/E would be expected to host diplomatic functions (which it did many times) and I'd think that such a meal would likely be prepared by living hands.

[Ktrek]

I agree that chapter Ten in the mess hall is a very well written chapter and is my favorite chapter in the entire book. It almost has a "Lower Decks" feel to it. I love Riker's statement at the end that he was hoping Dr. Ree was going to leave a joint or two for him! :roflmao

As for there being a chef it does seem odd especially on a ship of around 350 but I just assumed it was because there were so many different dietary needs and perhaps the captain's request.

We do learn an important plot twist in chapter Nine. We find out that Rukath was taken prisoner and is being held, and tortured in Vikr'l prison, and that Rukath was none other than Tuvok! da da da dum!

Does anyone else think that the authors are drawing parallels in this book to the Iraq situation with the Romulan homeworld being is a state of near civil war. There are so many factions vying for power and control. Tal Aura setting herself up as Praetor also seems like a very a middle eastern mindset. The Romulans are ruthless and cunning as always!

The references to Tezwa in the book refer back to events that happened in the "A Time To..." series of TNG books.

Why are Admiral's usually portrayed in a bad light in Star Trek? Is this a perceived reality in the military in general? Or just dramatic storytelling because you have to have conflict between an antagonist and the protagonist?

Also, in chapter Twelve we find Christine Vale having to reprimand Lt. Commander Fo Hachesa for making slightly racial slurs. This might make an interesting topic to discuss. When do public statements become a violation of freedom of speech? Does freedom of speech include the right to say "anything" you may want about another person? Can the regulation of speech go too far? For example, many religious groups believe certain types of behaviors as being immoral. When does it become a hate crime to speak out against what you believe is immoral? Should there be laws that dictate a persons speech? Should such laws extend to religious convictions? Should such laws also prohibit racial slurs?

For almost two hundred years people used to hold a position that "I don't agree with what or how you say it, but I'll fight to the death for your "right" to say it". Now it seems we have a society that says "I don't agree with what you say and so I'm going to make sure you can't say it".

Now I am not in any way saying that I believe a person should hold attitudes that IMHO are hateful of anyones race, gender, status, or sexual preference. I'm questioning whether a society loses something when they try to enforce how people should think through imposed laws? Is that not the way the Communists took? Are we willing to give up certain freedoms and trade them for security?

Anyway, as I said this book has a lot of material for good discussions.

Kevin

[Ktrek]

Now that I think about it, it's a bit odd that TNG never mentioned a galley and kitchen staff. As the flagship, the Enterprise D/E would be expected to host diplomatic functions (which it did many times) and I'd think that such a meal would likely be prepared by living hands.

In the movie Insurrection is there not a reference to the chef? I think Picard instructs someone to have the chef change the menu to something more vegetarian. Chrysanthemums and a vinaigrette.

Kevin

[Ktrek]

So I take it that nobody is really interested in discussing the book? Weird!

Kevin

[Duffster]

I was pretty surprised by Vales reaction also. Is Star Fleet so over the top PC that things can't be mentioned jokingly at all? Maybe it is different because it's coming from a command officer, so they are held to a higher standard. All I know is that if I was pulled into the ready room for the commenct Hachesa made, I would be upset also.

Of course this could be Vale trying to be as perfect as possible in her new position.


Duffster

[Ktrek]

Of course this could be Vale trying to be as perfect as possible in her new position.

Duffster

No I don't think so Duffster. I think that the writers are saying this is unacceptable behavior. If you transpose this situation over to real life and an office environment it would probably be unacceptable as well. Sometimes we deserve to be called up on the carpet. I remember I used to use the saying "He tried to Jew me down" without thinking anything of it. I meant nothing personally hateful or resentful toward Jewish people at all. It was a common saying where I grew up and I never really thought about the negative aspects of it. Everyone knows that many Jews are very frugal and good with money and this has led to their success. I suppose persons came to resent their ability to make money and that's how the saying came about. Today I would not use that expression now that I know I was really making a racial slur, as unintentional as that might have been. I have a concern in that I see in this country becoming so PC that people are afraid to even speak their minds anymore for fear of recrimination. Certain lobby groups are trying to pass laws that would prohibit certain things from being spoken and that concerns me a great deal.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts Duffster!

Kevin

[wraith1701]

I liked Taking Wing so much, I went ahead and purchased and read The Red King as well.  Unfortunately, the two books have kind of bled together in my mind into a single story; so it's kind of difficult to avoid spoiling...

Anyway; about the Political Correctness of Starfleet-

I agree; compared to what we've seen in the films and on TV, the characters might seem to be overly concerned about being sensitive to diversity.  But we have to keep in mind that up until now, the crews have been almost entirely human, so the issue never really had a chance to come up.  As I understand the different characters, especially the crew of the Enterprise D and DS9, I would imagine that their responses would be similar to what has been portrayed in Taking Wing. 

I don't think that that Vale is being overly-sensitive, but is actually living up to the spirit of the Federation.  After all, I'd like to think that the Federation embraces the Vulcan IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations. 

I don't see the Federation trying to stifle free speech, but in a professional, working environment, there have to be standards of conduct in place.  Derogatory comments aimed at different species shouldn't be any more acceptable than any other speech that is typically frowned upon.  After all; would it be OK for Picard to make an off-hand comment about how he thought Deanna had a nice butt?  Of course not!  He's free to say what he likes off duty, in the company of friends or peers.  But while acting as captain of the Ship, there are certain things that he just isn't permitted to say about his crew. 

In an environment as unique as that found on the Titan, it is only natural that the issue of species-sensitivity would come up.  I think that the writers did a good job of handling the subject.

[jedijeff]

When I read that part of the book, with Vale reprimanding the officer for his report, it fell in line with what it is like in a professional corporate organization. Just this morning, in my email I got the annual Corporate conduct Guidelines that every employee in our Company has to read and agree to. It is a long document, but right at the start it covers off situations like mentioned in the book, in terms to how we are to deal with co workers, clients and anyone else well representing the company. I figured Vale was within her right to ask the officer to refrain from making the comments he did. Since he was the senior officer of the shift, part of his role is to set an example for the other officers and crew under his shift. I suspect she wanted to catch his comments before others started to use them to freely, and possibly let those comments slip in front of the Klingons or Romulans. I am sure the Klingons would be offended if they were thought of nothing more then drunks by the Titan crew and Starfleet, I am sure the Romulans would have felt likewise.

Since it is a multi species crew, sensitivity to all species either serving on the Titan or otherwise is probably one that has a lot of focus for the command crew. I guess if the officer had those comments for the Klingons or Romulans, maybe the next time he might have a comment against the Ferengi or another Species that does serve aboard the ship.