Historic Day in California

Geekyfanboy · June 16, 2008, 10:57:43 PM

At 5:01pm today Marriage between a same sex couple is now legal in California. We are only the second state in the U.S. to recognize same sex couples. The cool thing that is different between Massachusetts and California is that California doesn't require residence. So I expect thousands of gay couples will be making there way to CA to get married... going to be good for our economy. It's been a long hard road and though we may have won this battle the fight continues... We still have one more hurdle to cross as come November the voters of CA will get to vote and see if we can keep these rights or ban it once again.

I know there are people out there who are not happy with this ruling and I'm sure there are folks on this forum who feel that gay marriage is wrong. And you have every right to your opinion. If you wish to discuss it in a mature manner I am up for a debate.

Until then... WHOOOO HOOOOO I'm gonna get married :biggrin

Rico · June 17, 2008, 04:59:55 AM

Kenny - congrats! I personally see nothing wrong with this between two consenting adults. I am curious about one thing. After the marriage for you will you be filing taxes as married? Does the Federal government recognize it too? And what happens if the voters vote to overturn it? Which I doubt will happen.

Bryancd · June 17, 2008, 05:06:08 AM

Wasn't it a voter action which repealed this a few years ago when it was first enacted? I could have sworn we discussed that here. And that's a great question, Rico, as to whether or not the Federal Government acknowledges the rights of a married couple. I have always been in favor of legal civil unions granting same sex couples the opportunity to enjoy all the legal benefits of a married couple.

billybob476 · June 17, 2008, 05:40:42 AM

I think it's great and it's about time. I'm really happy for you Kenny.

jedijeff · June 17, 2008, 07:39:04 AM

Congrats Kenny, all the best, and I agree with the others, it will be nice that you can take advantage of the legal benefits.

Geekyfanboy · June 17, 2008, 07:47:42 AM

Quote from: Rico on June 17, 2008, 04:59:55 AM
Kenny - congrats! I personally see nothing wrong with this between two consenting adults. I am curious about one thing. After the marriage for you will you be filing taxes as married? Does the Federal government recognize it too? And what happens if the voters vote to overturn it? Which I doubt will happen.

No unfortunately the Federal Government doesn't recognize the marriage, this is stickily state level. In 92 the Federal Government enacted the marriage act and it states that a marriage is between a man and a woman, which trumpet all state laws. If the voters overturn it then we battle again to get it deemed unconstitutional.

Quote from: Bryancd on June 17, 2008, 05:06:08 AM
Wasn't it a voter action which repealed this a few years ago when it was first enacted? I could have sworn we discussed that here. And that's a great question, Rico, as to whether or not the Federal Government acknowledges the rights of a married couple. I have always been in favor of legal civil unions granting same sex couples the opportunity to enjoy all the legal benefits of a married couple.

Many years ago the CA voters voted to amend the CA Constitution to include the words that a marriage is between a man and a woman thus banning gay marriages. 22 other states have such bans. This November they are going to try it again..

Meds · June 17, 2008, 10:18:30 AM

Congrats Kenny. It's about time gay marriage was allowed. Yay for you and Harry getting married. I've never understood why people get all het up over stuff like this. At the end of the day surely the meaning of life is to be happy. And if you are in love with someone, same sex or opposite then that's got to be the most important thing in the world. Will raise a glass of champers to you on your big day mate.

billybob476 · June 17, 2008, 10:38:05 AM

Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on June 17, 2008, 10:18:30 AM
Congrats Kenny. It's about time gay marriage was allowed. Yay for you and Harry getting married. I've never understood why people get all het up over stuff like this. At the end of the day surely the meaning of life is to be happy. And if you are in love with someone, same sex or opposite then that's got to be the most important thing in the world. Will raise a glass of champers to you on your big day mate.

While I fully support gay marriage, I can see why people would be against it. In my opinion it comes down to this: People have deep-seated beliefs, it's much easier to blindly support those beliefs then to question them. From a fundamentally Catholic point of view the old testament (I think) says marriage is between a man and a woman and that being gay is wrong. If that is what a person was brought up believing, it's very easy for that person to blindly support that point of view. Logically, it makes no sense but that's what has been drilled into him/her so they believe it.

Again, that is not what I believe, just a possible counterpoint.

Bryancd · June 17, 2008, 10:52:57 AM

Quote from: billybob476 on June 17, 2008, 10:38:05 AM
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on June 17, 2008, 10:18:30 AM
Congrats Kenny. It's about time gay marriage was allowed. Yay for you and Harry getting married. I've never understood why people get all het up over stuff like this. At the end of the day surely the meaning of life is to be happy. And if you are in love with someone, same sex or opposite then that's got to be the most important thing in the world. Will raise a glass of champers to you on your big day mate.

While I fully support gay marriage, I can see why people would be against it. In my opinion it comes down to this: People have deep-seated beliefs, it's much easier to blindly support those beliefs then to question them. From a fundamentally Catholic point of view the old testament (I think) says marriage is between a man and a woman and that being gay is wrong. If that is what a person was brought up believing, it's very easy for that person to blindly support that point of view. Logically, it makes no sense but that's what has been drilled into him/her so they believe it.

Again, that is not what I believe, just a possible counterpoint.

Right, and though I am non-practicing Christian, I can see the valididty of that side of the argument. If Marriage is a religous ceremony, than I can see why those that practice a religion which does not allow for same sex unions would be against it.

Blackride · June 17, 2008, 12:39:37 PM

Quote from: billybob476 on June 17, 2008, 10:38:05 AM
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on June 17, 2008, 10:18:30 AM
Congrats Kenny. It's about time gay marriage was allowed. Yay for you and Harry getting married. I've never understood why people get all het up over stuff like this. At the end of the day surely the meaning of life is to be happy. And if you are in love with someone, same sex or opposite then that's got to be the most important thing in the world. Will raise a glass of champers to you on your big day mate.

While I fully support gay marriage, I can see why people would be against it. In my opinion it comes down to this: People have deep-seated beliefs, it's much easier to blindly support those beliefs then to question them. From a fundamentally Catholic point of view the old testament (I think) says marriage is between a man and a woman and that being gay is wrong. If that is what a person was brought up believing, it's very easy for that person to blindly support that point of view. Logically, it makes no sense but that's what has been drilled into him/her so they believe it.

Again, that is not what I believe, just a possible counterpoint.

Kinda a big assumption to think that people that are anti-gay/marriage are following things blindly, isn't? That's saying that all those people can't think for themselves. Does that mean that all religious people are following everything blindly because they "believe"?

I don't agree with that. Maybe I am just not reading your post correctly, which I am know to do.

billybob476 · June 17, 2008, 12:44:41 PM

Quote from: Blackride on June 17, 2008, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: billybob476 on June 17, 2008, 10:38:05 AM
Quote from: HawkeyeMeds on June 17, 2008, 10:18:30 AM
Congrats Kenny. It's about time gay marriage was allowed. Yay for you and Harry getting married. I've never understood why people get all het up over stuff like this. At the end of the day surely the meaning of life is to be happy. And if you are in love with someone, same sex or opposite then that's got to be the most important thing in the world. Will raise a glass of champers to you on your big day mate.

While I fully support gay marriage, I can see why people would be against it. In my opinion it comes down to this: People have deep-seated beliefs, it's much easier to blindly support those beliefs then to question them. From a fundamentally Catholic point of view the old testament (I think) says marriage is between a man and a woman and that being gay is wrong. If that is what a person was brought up believing, it's very easy for that person to blindly support that point of view. Logically, it makes no sense but that's what has been drilled into him/her so they believe it.

Again, that is not what I believe, just a possible counterpoint.

Kinda a big assumption to think that people that are anti-gay/marriage are following things blindly, isn't? That's saying that all those people can't think for themselves. Does that mean that all religious people are following everything blindly because they "believe"?

I don't agree with that. Maybe I am just not reading your post correctly, which I am know to do.

As I said, just a possible counterpoint. In no way do I mean that all people who are against gay marriage are being blind, but I'm sure there are those that are. Basically I am just trying to say that it's easier to be intolerant then to try and understand a differing viewpoint.

Geekyfanboy · June 17, 2008, 12:51:59 PM

I don't think billybob meant anything offense by his statement. If I understood it.. Parents raise there kids as they were raised and then there kids pass on their beliefs to their kids.. an so on.. it's all they know.

All I have to say is hatered is taught.. you are not born hating people.

billybob476 · June 17, 2008, 01:00:44 PM

Right on Kenny.

I have been known to be less then clear in my statements sometimes. I used religion as an example but it can really be any kind of belief.

X · June 17, 2008, 01:11:32 PM

See my problem is that people that say that marriage is between a man and a woman and then uses the bible for reference that it is a religious ceremony seems to miss that part in genesis where I believe Job calls the men that are scheduled to marry his daughters as Sons-in-law. To me this implies that it has always been a legal contract and let's face it. Marriage has never been an unchanging tradition.

In the beginnings men could marry as many women as they wanted and the women had little say in the matter.

It then progressed to where one many had to pay another many to marry his daughter.

Then we get to other issues where in England during the middle ages, a man could rape a woman and if he didn't marry her, he went to jail. She didn't have much choice on the matter.

Marriage has never been a traditional thing and to claim that the reason to protect it seems kind of ignorant of history.

To say it was religious also causes issue with me.

Adam and Eve were never married. There was no ceremony that I recalled reading and God called her his mate. Not wife. People want to imply that they were married because God gave her to Adam, but you can imply a lot of things in the bible and it still doesn't make it true.

If we look at history as a source of traditional marriage, there were dozens of cultures that allowed same sex marriage for quite a long time.

Lastly, I don't see how anyone can vote to deny any other group of people rights. I don't think that rights should be put to vote for anyone because that is a very good way to keep any minority oppressed.

The thought of amending the constitution to exclude someone else flies in the face of everything this country was founded on. All men were created EQUAL and everyone is entitled to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. EVERYONE.

Not just people you like or lifestyles that you agree with.

There are people that like to press the panic button and say that if gays can get married then what else will we allow.

My concern is that if we start allowing or denying a person rights due to popular vote, who else will get oppressed once that precedent is established?

This is something that my wife and I have talked about and she actually wrote something on it and did a lot of research on the subject. I'll link it because she can point you to a lot of the history regarding traditional marriages.

http://hubpages.com/hub/We-are-no-longer-alone?utm_source=emailhub&utm_campaign=evite&utm_medium=email

Blackride · June 17, 2008, 01:35:41 PM

Based on peoples arguments, Polgmy should be also allowed. It's is the same reasoning.

I also think people need to be very carefull on this topic. Just because someone does not believe in gay marriage does not mean they hate gay people. That is a giant leap to me that is dangerous.....

Just my opinion all and please note that I never once said which side of the fence I am on this. I like to listen to peoples thoughts and poke and prode :)