"STAR TREK Into Darkness" - 2013

[Bryancd]

I'm actually kind of ambivalent about a reboot of the Khan story. I can see why they might go that routes as it's a good touchstone for all Trek fans, even the most casual. But i also agree the number of untold stories is pretty good fodder and it shouldn't take much to create a compelling original story.

[Dangelus]

Well if they do it it will be more "Wrath of Khan" than "Space Seed" I'm sure, probably taking elements from both.

I'm hoping they don't retread old ground but go drastically different, even they they use some old characters, to establish this as I completely new universe with a new story to tell.

[Rico]

Keep in mind "Wrath of Khan" is 30 years old next year.  That means probably a lot of the movie going audience has never even seen that film or know the story.  For people like us, a new story would be better.  But in a way, they need to do what they think will generate the most box office.

[Bryancd]

Agreed, Rico. I wonder if they do go down that path how will they handle the Eugenics War and all of that? Could be interesting to explore that event as i assume it predates Nero's incursion into the new time line.

[Dangelus]

Agreed, Rico. I wonder if they do go down that path how will they handle the Eugenics War and all of that? Could be interesting to explore that event as i assume it predates Nero's incursion into the new time line.

I'm still confused after 3 years as to what this universe is supposed to be. I've read that the timeline split after Nero entered the timeline and I've read that is was always supposed to be an alternate universe.

I would be much happier with the latter as there are a lot of elements in the first film that are different and predate any timeline disruption.

[Bryancd]

Wasn't Nero skulking about the new universe for many years prior to attacking the Kelvin?

[X]

Agreed, Rico. I wonder if they do go down that path how will they handle the Eugenics War and all of that? Could be interesting to explore that event as i assume it predates Nero's incursion into the new time line.

I think that my issue with Khan was summed up with what Rico said. The story is 30+ years old. Now granted, there are a ton of new faces that have never seen the old story, but part of the magic of Khan was that he was a pre-existing character that came from the series. That would be a lot of screen time introducing Khan, establishing his backstory and turning him into a threat for one film to pull off.

If anything, I'd rather see V'ger introduced because we saw that it exists in the Countdown series or the Nero series.

Speaking of rehashing, here are a few things that I would like to see...

-The Fall of El Aloria, something never seen on screen and would be around a similar time. Maybe we see the doomsday machine fighting the borg
- Klingon Invasion of the Federation to make use of the weakened military might.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the next movie will be about the Klingon testing the Federation in some way. Del Toro would make a great Klingon General and it wouldn't be hard pressed to develop that kind of story. I'm even willing to go so far as say.

- Klingons have some new tech thanks to two decades of studying Nero's ship.
- To recover the lose of honor and Nero stomping them, they attack the Federation, who they blame for Nero and because the Federation is weak from the battle with Nero.
- Spock and Kirk will bond more because of another Away mission that builds the friendship that we need to happen.
- Maybe toss in the Organans as part of the story to create the treaty, but instead of a planet, they are fighting over a sector or some major resource.
- This will have a good number of both space and land battles and might even involve Kirk and Spock trying to sabotage something critical in the story to generate the previously mentioned bonding scene.
- Kirk will meet a new woman, but won't become a baby daddy anytime in the near future.
- Story will end with a major change in the fabric of the Federation.

In summary ... Klingon and war, with major ramifications at the end.

[X]

Wasn't Nero skulking about the new universe for many years prior to attacking the Kelvin?

Between finding V'Ger and sitting in a Klingon jail, yeah he was around.

[Bryancd]

Wasn't Nero skulking about the new universe for many years prior to attacking the Kelvin?

Between finding V'Ger and sitting in a Klingon jail, yeah he was around.

Right, so that would account for how different the time line already was by the time of the film.

[Dangelus]

Ah I guess I didn't read the Nero series where perhaps they is a bit more information.

[X]

Agreed, Rico. I wonder if they do go down that path how will they handle the Eugenics War and all of that? Could be interesting to explore that event as i assume it predates Nero's incursion into the new time line.

I'm still confused after 3 years as to what this universe is supposed to be. I've read that the timeline split after Nero entered the timeline and I've read that is was always supposed to be an alternate universe.

I would be much happier with the latter as there are a lot of elements in the first film that are different and predate any timeline disruption.

It was always an alternate timeline, which would explain the differences in ships. As morbid as this sounds, when trying to explain it, I hear Kevin Cosner in my head saying "Back and to the left... back and to the left ... back and to the left"

Nero went back in time, but jumped train tracks in the process.

It also gets around that pesky time travel paradox thing. Time travel isn't possible, but moving to similar dimensions are. Hell, as far as the quantum mechanics of it goes, they could have just went sideways in time where it "looked" like they went back in time, but the other universe just started later. (Sliders has an episode like that)

So your answer in a nutshell is that it was both and neither. It could be several things or none of them.

- Alternate universe that was changed by subjective time travel and will change the future of the universe
- Alternate universe that just runs slower than ours and the lag between Spock and Nero has more to do with relativistic travel than temporal travel. Larger ship getting pulled faster to the event horizon than the smaller ship of less mass.
- Alternate time line where the time travel was always predestined to happen, so nothing is changed

[X]

Wasn't Nero skulking about the new universe for many years prior to attacking the Kelvin?

Between finding V'Ger and sitting in a Klingon jail, yeah he was around.

Right, so that would account for how different the time line already was by the time of the film.

Mostly, but not for the look and design of the Kelvin.

[Dangelus]

Agreed, Rico. I wonder if they do go down that path how will they handle the Eugenics War and all of that? Could be interesting to explore that event as i assume it predates Nero's incursion into the new time line.

I'm still confused after 3 years as to what this universe is supposed to be. I've read that the timeline split after Nero entered the timeline and I've read that is was always supposed to be an alternate universe.

I would be much happier with the latter as there are a lot of elements in the first film that are different and predate any timeline disruption.

It was always an alternate timeline, which would explain the differences in ships. As morbid as this sounds, when trying to explain it, I hear Kevin Cosner in my head saying "Back and to the left... back and to the left ... back and to the left"

Nero went back in time, but jumped train tracks in the process.

It also gets around that pesky time travel paradox thing. Time travel isn't possible, but moving to similar dimensions are. Hell, as far as the quantum mechanics of it goes, they could have just went sideways in time where it "looked" like they went back in time, but the other universe just started later. (Sliders has an episode like that)

So your answer in a nutshell is that it was both and neither. It could be several things or none of them.

- Alternate universe that was changed by subjective time travel and will change the future of the universe
- Alternate universe that just runs slower than ours and the lag between Spock and Nero has more to do with relativistic travel than temporal travel. Larger ship getting pulled faster to the event horizon than the smaller ship of less mass.
- Alternate time line where the time travel was always predestined to happen, so nothing is changed

I'm much happier with this explanation. It frees up the writing a heck of a lot and we don't have to worry about how they are trying to shoehorn things in. :)

[Bryancd]

Oh, right, didn't the Kelvin encounter Nero's ship just as they entered the new universe from the prime universe?

[Dangelus]

I think I should rewatch Star Trek (2009) soon lol.