2010 snowfall...

Started by sheldor, February 09, 2010, 12:02:55 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ChadH

It seems to me that the global climate change issue will never be settled.
Quote from the average Kryptonian on the street:
"That Jor-El guy is full of it!"
"Hey, did you guy's just feel a tremor?"

Ktrek

Well, I read recently that the national averages have been one to two degrees cooler over the last five years, which should put to rest global warming and greenhouse effect. Next they'll be telling us we are heading to another ice age. The green people have a lot of power in politics. Since we don't have an evil enemy anymore to focus on we have to villainize something or someone.

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Rico

Quote from: Ktrek on February 12, 2010, 09:23:19 AM
Well, I read recently that the national averages have been one to two degrees cooler over the last five years, which should put to rest global warming and greenhouse effect. Next they'll be telling us we are heading to another ice age. The green people have a lot of power in politics. Since we don't have an evil enemy anymore to focus on we have to villainize something or someone.

Kevin

Again - not really.  Please see the above articles.  Also, a few years of data is by no means conclusive one way or the other.  I am not sure at all, either way.  However, I am a chemist and work with materials everyday that can harm the environment.  I see no reason not to try and do our part to minimize the release of hydrocarbons and other materials, even if Mother Earth can take it.

cosmonaut

Quote from: ChadH on February 12, 2010, 09:13:29 AM
It seems to me that the global climate change issue will never be settled.
Quote from the average Kryptonian on the street:
"That Jor-El guy is full of it!"
"Hey, did you guy's just feel a tremor?"

I'm worried one day it will be settled - and if global warming is real it might be too late to do anything about it. Err on the side of caution, I'd say.

Now please keep that Gulf Stream going bringing all the good heat to Europe, as much as I like a good winter a good summer is even better! ;)

sheldor

Quote from: Rico on February 12, 2010, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: Ktrek on February 12, 2010, 09:23:19 AM
Well, I read recently that the national averages have been one to two degrees cooler over the last five years, which should put to rest global warming and greenhouse effect. Next they'll be telling us we are heading to another ice age. The green people have a lot of power in politics. Since we don't have an evil enemy anymore to focus on we have to villainize something or someone.

Kevin

Again - not really.  Please see the above articles.  Also, a few years of data is by no means conclusive one way or the other.  I am not sure at all, either way.  However, I am a chemist and work with materials everyday that can harm the environment.  I see no reason not to try and do our part to minimize the release of hydrocarbons and other materials, even if Mother Earth can take it.

As long as the government doesn't stick their nose into my light sockets. :)  Personally, I think we should plant a bunch of trees, make our own compost, use paper instead of plastic bags, etc.  Like Elizabeth said "the code is more what you'd call guidelinesthan actual rules".

cosmonaut

Quote from: sheldar on February 12, 2010, 10:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rico on February 12, 2010, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: Ktrek on February 12, 2010, 09:23:19 AM
Well, I read recently that the national averages have been one to two degrees cooler over the last five years, which should put to rest global warming and greenhouse effect. Next they'll be telling us we are heading to another ice age. The green people have a lot of power in politics. Since we don't have an evil enemy anymore to focus on we have to villainize something or someone.

Kevin

Again - not really.  Please see the above articles.  Also, a few years of data is by no means conclusive one way or the other.  I am not sure at all, either way.  However, I am a chemist and work with materials everyday that can harm the environment.  I see no reason not to try and do our part to minimize the release of hydrocarbons and other materials, even if Mother Earth can take it.

As long as the government doesn't stick their nose into my light sockets. :)  Personally, I think we should plant a bunch of trees, make our own compost, use paper instead of plastic bags, etc.  Like Elizabeth said "the code is more what you'd call guidelinesthan actual rules".

Well, following US discussions I understand the government is principally bad, but putting taxes on electricity, gas and water works wonders in generating a more economic use.
I won't go so far to suggest to invest the tax money in researching "green" technologies.

Though a reduced dependency on oil... imagine all the money invested in securing oil instead invested in researching technologies that make you independent from oil. The world might look a bit different today.

ChadH

Quote from: sheldar on February 12, 2010, 10:22:37 AM
Quote from: Rico on February 12, 2010, 09:39:24 AM
Quote from: Ktrek on February 12, 2010, 09:23:19 AM
Well, I read recently that the national averages have been one to two degrees cooler over the last five years, which should put to rest global warming and greenhouse effect. Next they'll be telling us we are heading to another ice age. The green people have a lot of power in politics. Since we don't have an evil enemy anymore to focus on we have to villainize something or someone.

Kevin

Again - not really.  Please see the above articles.  Also, a few years of data is by no means conclusive one way or the other.  I am not sure at all, either way.  However, I am a chemist and work with materials everyday that can harm the environment.  I see no reason not to try and do our part to minimize the release of hydrocarbons and other materials, even if Mother Earth can take it.

As long as the government doesn't stick their nose into my light sockets. :)  Personally, I think we should plant a bunch of trees, make our own compost, use paper instead of plastic bags, etc.  Like Elizabeth said "the code is more what you'd call guidelinesthan actual rules".
It seems more like just common sense to me.
Interesting how a casual remark can cause so many different opinions to surface.

Ktrek

Here is a relevant article about climate change and global warming debate. Seems even one of the leading scientiic researchers on this even has to admit
Quote"for the past 15 years there has been no 'statistically significant' warming."
Anyway, you can read the whole article for yourself. The comments below are also very interesting reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Feathers

Quote from: Ktrek on February 15, 2010, 09:45:56 AM
Here is a relevant article about climate change and global warming debate. Seems even one of the leading scientiic researchers on this even has to admit
Quote"for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming."
Anyway, you can read the whole article for yourself. The comments below are also very interesting reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html

Kevin

This really blew up in the news over here. So much fuss over some email. Regardless of the rights and wrongs, it set the idea back quite a way over here.

I know it's unnusual here but I don't have a podcast of my own.

Bryancd

Quote from: Rico on February 12, 2010, 09:39:24 AM
  Also, a few years of data is by no means conclusive one way or the other.  I am not sure at all, either way.  However, I am a chemist and work with materials everyday that can harm the environment.  I see no reason not to try and do our part to minimize the release of hydrocarbons and other materials, even if Mother Earth can take it.

This is where I come down on this as well. Due to our lack of meaningful data covering any significant period of time, we are very limited in our ability to draw any conclusions one way or another. Certainly, it is reasonable for mankind to make an effort to begin to try and minimize our impact upon the planet in many way, not just CO2 emissions. It will likely be to our benefit in the long haul.

Ktrek

Quote from: Bryancd on February 15, 2010, 10:25:27 AM
Quote from: Rico on February 12, 2010, 09:39:24 AM
 Also, a few years of data is by no means conclusive one way or the other.  I am not sure at all, either way.  However, I am a chemist and work with materials everyday that can harm the environment.  I see no reason not to try and do our part to minimize the release of hydrocarbons and other materials, even if Mother Earth can take it.

This is where I come down on this as well. Due to our lack of meaningful data covering any significant period of time, we are very limited in our ability to draw any conclusions one way or another. Certainly, it is reasonable for mankind to make an effort to begin to try and minimize our impact upon the planet in many way, not just CO2 emissions. It will likely be to our benefit in the long haul.

Oh I agree Bryan! I think that we should be responsible and moral about the environment. It's just this one issue I think is very questionable and the approach has been less than scientific. I do believe that if you follow the money it appears that this "theory" is profitable to the coffers of those most outspoken in defense of it.

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

X

Quote from: Ktrek on February 15, 2010, 11:15:34 AM
Quote from: Bryancd on February 15, 2010, 10:25:27 AM
Quote from: Rico on February 12, 2010, 09:39:24 AM
  Also, a few years of data is by no means conclusive one way or the other.  I am not sure at all, either way.  However, I am a chemist and work with materials everyday that can harm the environment.  I see no reason not to try and do our part to minimize the release of hydrocarbons and other materials, even if Mother Earth can take it.

This is where I come down on this as well. Due to our lack of meaningful data covering any significant period of time, we are very limited in our ability to draw any conclusions one way or another. Certainly, it is reasonable for mankind to make an effort to begin to try and minimize our impact upon the planet in many way, not just CO2 emissions. It will likely be to our benefit in the long haul.

Oh I agree Bryan! I think that we should be responsible and moral about the environment. It's just this one issue I think is very questionable and the approach has been less than scientific. I do believe that if you follow the money it appears that this "theory" is profitable to the coffers of those most outspoken in defense of it.

Kevin
I think you're wrong about people doing it for a profit. While some scientist have been tools about the subject, not all scientist have been tools.

Sure, people are getting snow now, but do we really forget about the massive droughts that have been happening for years? Even when you factor in the amount of snow, it's still less precipitation than we are usually getting in a lot of places. The only thing that has changed is when we are getting it.

Lots of snow one season and little to no rain in other season does not mean that global warming is a ruse. It means that the weather patterns are already changing.

Ktrek

I think a lot of the scientists support it to keep the grant money coming. The scientists may not, and probably are not, getting rich on the theory, but it does keep them employed. Al Gore, on the other hand, has made millions not just from his books but other investments that he has been successful in getting implementation. As well as many other politicians.

I'm not going to argue that there is not climate change happening, I just believe that it is cyclical. There have been warmer periods in history than we have now but all of a sudden man is responsible for the changes. He might be and he might not be. If it is a "natural" cycle it's just one that man will have to ride out, like he has done many times before.

We seem to forget that the Earth wobbles so many degrees and not only that but the orbit around the sun varies some degrees because the solar system is also in movement as well as the galaxy. The Earth is affected by many gravitational pulls that fluctuate and are always changing. This season of change may last ten years and do a complete reversal. We don't know. I think it's wise to cut down emissions etc. but I think the jury is still out about man being responsible for the current changes.

Kevin
"Oh...Well, Who am I to argue with me?" Dr. Bashir - Visionary - Deep Space Nine

Rico

#43
Be careful on the scientist angle.  Data is data.  What some choose to do with that information or how they interpret it is another matter.

X

It's a nice conspiricy theory and all, but it makes absolutely no sense when you apply common sense and logic.

Not only are we pumping out billions of tons of greenhouse gasses, we're converting inert nitrogen into bad nitrogen for fertalizers. Humans are and have been teriforming the earth for a while. Look at Oklahoma and Vegas.

We are changing wind and weather patterns by strip mining mountains, paving roads, and erecting sky scrapers. We are preventing the fire cycle in forests that need it while burn clearing forest that were never part of that cycle.

Humans are changing the planet and global warming is happening. The only thing that believing a conspiricy theory does is allow us to continue business as usual. The only purpose it serves is to let us continue to screw up our future by shifting the blame from our own actions at home.

We are changing the planet and our comfort zone is getting more and more narrow. I have no doubt that the earth will survive, it might even get better, but planet earth will have no problems doing that after we destroyed ourselves with our own ignorance and hubris.

The question isn't what if they are faking, but what do we have to lose from making things better?

What do we have to lose if we treat global warming as a human caused issue?

Now imagine what we have to gain, what our kids and grandkids have to gain by rebuilding society into something less wasteful.