Star Wars: The Clone Wars Season 4

[ChrisMC]

You're probably right. Before Ep. 3, I think the prevailing wisdom was that Palpatine looked all funky because the Dark Side powers were taking a toll on his body.

Anyway, I really liked the start of this arc. I enjoy seeing things in the SW universe we haven't seen, like a full blown prison.

[Bryancd]

I disagree, I have always seen the use of the Force as something which requires concentration and focus of will. I have seen many instances on screen where the use of the Force requires just such focus and is a cause of fatigue. I get that, why don't you? George Lucas and Dave Filloni have also stated that is their intent in terms of portraying the use of the Force. Sorry if you don't get it.

[X]

I disagree, I have always seen the use of the Force as something which requires concentration and focus of will. I have seen many instances on screen where the use of the Force requires just such focus and is a cause of fatigue. I get that, why don't you? George Lucas and Dave Filloni have also stated that is their intent in terms of portraying the use of the Force. Sorry if you don't get it.

Where did they say this at? It's clearly not in any of the books that I've read. Where did you read that this was their intent? Better still, why was it not shown? After intense uses of the force, no one on screen comes of as have been drained by the experience.

I fully agree that it does require concentration and force of will, but only while maintaining the effects. After the use of the power is done, there is no strain or fatigue. I didn't argue that using the force didn't require concentration. In most cases it does seem to require concentration, in some, not so much. Speed running and super jumps tend to fall in the not so much range, while lifting things requires concentration when they're heavy, but not when crushing throats.

I'm also not arguing what your opinion of the results might be. to each his own, but I would like to know where they said that using the force is draining. I've also started searching the web for clues to what happens. So far my Google-fu is weak. there is nothing on using the force causing fatigue, but several things on using the force to reduce fatigue. Still nothing solid.

[Rico]

I think the real answer is the use of the Force varies, from movie to movie, from book to book, and in my view especially in the Clone Wars.  The Jedi do some pretty incredible things over and over in the Clone Wars cartoon that's seldom seen in the live action films.  Also, part of this is another corner Uncle George put himself in.  In the films the Jedi generally have to fight "worthy" opponents as the big bad's - such as Darth Maul, Dooku, Grievous, Vader, the Emperor, etc.  In the Clone Wars they can't really have a "big bad" each week so they take some liberties with things at times.  I just wish once in awhile they tried to explain it a little.  Or have a bad guy use one of those Force draining worm things from the books.  It's not a huge deal, but the cartoon being that it's animated I think makes them "tweak" things to serve the story.

[Bryancd]

Chris, I want to say the mention from Dave was on The ForceCast but I can't recall which show. I think in both the films, Yoda in the swamp, Luke in his training, Luke's dual with Vader, it was obvious to me they was fatigue in the use of the Force. Certainly Luke looked pretty pooped trying to lift rocks. In the cartoon, I can think of multiple times where even a powerful Jedi appears, again to me, to be tried following a major use of the Force.  Obviously there's no way to know if that precludes them from using the Force again right away in the same manner, but I always look at it like when I do intervals at the track. High effort/intensity needs a brief recovery before repeating.

I agree with what Rico said above, that sometimes the cartoon has afforded them the flexibility to have the characters do some wild and a bit excessive moves using the Force, but I just don't attribute these issues to lazy writing.

[X]

Chris, I want to say the mention from Dave was on The ForceCast but I can't recall which show. I think in both the films, Yoda in the swamp, Luke in his training, Luke's dual with Vader, it was obvious to me they was fatigue in the use of the Force. Certainly Luke looked pretty pooped trying to lift rocks. In the cartoon, I can think of multiple times where even a powerful Jedi appears, again to me, to be tried following a major use of the Force.  Obviously there's no way to know if that precludes them from using the Force again right away in the same manner, but I always look at it like when I do intervals at the track. High effort/intensity needs a brief recovery before repeating.

I agree with what Rico said above, that sometimes the cartoon has afforded them the flexibility to have the characters do some wild and a bit excessive moves using the Force, but I just don't attribute these issues to lazy writing.

I agree with you both in many ways. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. If the Jedi use the force to solve their problems, then they need bigger threats. You either have to ignore the lack of force use or have them fighting only the baddest people in the galaxy.

I know this might sound funny, but I think that the first season of the Power Rangers solved this problem better than anything I've seen. While they can morph and summon their zords at will, they were told in the beginning to only use force equal to the situation. They wouldn't summon their zords unless the battle had become escalated. I think that just a little line of dialog would handle that well in Star Wars as well, only use the force when it's needed and not simply because it's wanted.

[Bryancd]

You're right....that does sound funny. :)

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Chris, I want to say the mention from Dave was on The ForceCast but I can't recall which show. I think in both the films, Yoda in the swamp, Luke in his training, Luke's dual with Vader, it was obvious to me they was fatigue in the use of the Force. Certainly Luke looked pretty pooped trying to lift rocks. In the cartoon, I can think of multiple times where even a powerful Jedi appears, again to me, to be tried following a major use of the Force.  Obviously there's no way to know if that precludes them from using the Force again right away in the same manner, but I always look at it like when I do intervals at the track. High effort/intensity needs a brief recovery before repeating.

I agree with what Rico said above, that sometimes the cartoon has afforded them the flexibility to have the characters do some wild and a bit excessive moves using the Force, but I just don't attribute these issues to lazy writing.

I agree with you both in many ways. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. If the Jedi use the force to solve their problems, then they need bigger threats. You either have to ignore the lack of force use or have them fighting only the baddest people in the galaxy.

I know this might sound funny, but I think that the first season of the Power Rangers solved this problem better than anything I've seen. While they can morph and summon their zords at will, they were told in the beginning to only use force equal to the situation. They wouldn't summon their zords unless the battle had become escalated. I think that just a little line of dialog would handle that well in Star Wars as well, only use the force when it's needed and not simply because it's wanted.

Really?  Never knew that.  Huh. 

I agree though, GL made a fatal mistake by not giving us a reason in Episode 4 (heck, 5 or 6) of why Jedi don't always use their powers.  Otherwise, you should just be Superman all the time.

King

[Bryancd]

I agree though, GL made a fatal mistake by not giving us a reason in Episode 4 (heck, 5 or 6) of why Jedi don't always use their powers. 
King

"Fatal mistake" ? Tim, that is absurd hyperbole. Come on, seriously.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I agree though, GL made a fatal mistake by not giving us a reason in Episode 4 (heck, 5 or 6) of why Jedi don't always use their powers. 
King

"Fatal mistake" ? Tim, that is absurd hyperbole. Come on, seriously.

I only mean in the strictest sense of analyzing the Jedi.  Most people, when they do fantasy, make sure that their characters can't go around rampaging and being Superman.  Its actually a bit odd that GL never had a reason why Jedi weren't more powerful.  Especially when we get to the Prequel era, you'd think someone would have mentioned something.

King

[Bryancd]

What you fail to realize is that in 1975-1982 there was no way to portray Force powers with as much dramatic effect as you can in the modern film and animation era. He didn't make a fatal mistake, doofus, he was limited by the technology of the time he made the films.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

What you fail to realize is that in 1975-1982 there was no way to portray Force powers with as much dramatic effect as you can in the modern film and animation era. He didn't make a fatal mistake, doofus, he was limited by the technology of the time he made the films.

I'm rather aware of that, but that still doesn't cover the fact that they never mention why the Jedi don't just go in force powers a-blazing.  In fact, its a common problem I've been having this past season with the Clone Wars.  It was only until this previous episode where Obi-Wan couldn't use his force powers or something else that the tension returned and it was explainable.  Whenever the Jedi did have their powers, then you pretty much sit there wondering how they could get trapped/killed etc when they could have used their force powers. 

King

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Anyway, this is starting to come full circle again.  While we can see that the Jedi are "pooped" as you said Bryan, they have yet to really explain beyond that.  While I have no doubt that Dave said something about it, we have yet to see it "In-canon".  Podcasts aren't in-canon so it would just be nice if they actually put it in somewhere, but it doesn't look like they will at this point. 

Bah

King

[Bryancd]

What you fail to realize is that in 1975-1982 there was no way to portray Force powers with as much dramatic effect as you can in the modern film and animation era. He didn't make a fatal mistake, doofus, he was limited by the technology of the time he made the films.

I'm rather aware of that, but that still doesn't cover the fact that they never mention why the Jedi don't just go in force powers a-blazing. 

Because it's completely inconsequential to the larger story. if it bothers you so much, buh-bye and stop watching the show. I weep for the youth of our country.., ;)

[ChrisMC]

What you fail to realize is that in 1975-1982 there was no way to portray Force powers with as much dramatic effect as you can in the modern film and animation era. He didn't make a fatal mistake, doofus, he was limited by the technology of the time he made the films.

I'm rather aware of that, but that still doesn't cover the fact that they never mention why the Jedi don't just go in force powers a-blazing. 

Because it's completely inconsequential to the larger story. if it bothers you so much, buh-bye and stop watching the show. I weep for the youth of our country.., ;)

I have 4 of 'em. Weep for me!