Star Wars: The Clone Wars Season 4

[ori-STUDFARM]

I do have a problem with what you type King. Not your opinion, just how you seem to voice it. You type out your opinions as facts and it comes across as slightly dismissive and maybe even a little arrogant to anybody else who is holding a differing opinion. I know you don't mean it that way, but thats how it reads and comes across.

[spoiler]

Joker and Maul are two entirely different villains.  Maul is predictable, mostly because he wants revenge on the Jedi.  The Joker is very unpredictable in what he'll do next and how he will do it.  I could predict maul 5 steps ahead of his every actions.  He is a boring, two-dimensional villain.  Heck, I even saw the whole "I killed your master, how do you feel about that" line before it came.  The fact that Obi-Wan reacted with anger to it only furthered my annoyance because that is so cliche for the hero to do it.  I figured Obi-Wan was better than that by now, especially considering how he reacted to the news of Maul being alive, which wasn't of anger.  Its all incredibly cliche at this point, especially the "I can wait for my revenge" line at the end.  And so far, Maul hasn't rocked any boats so far, I'd say Savage has done that better so far. 

I just hold a totally differing opinion to this. I don't think Maul and Joker are that different and I certainly don't think Maul is predictable. I didn't forsee him killing innocents to bring Obi Wan to him. And I didn't forsee him calmly letting Obi Wan escape and awaiting for his revenge. And it makes perfect sense that the Sith (or Sith trained) will try and play on a Jedi's emotion to evoke a negative reaction. Personally, I would have preferred Maul to fight in silence as he did in TPM.

Cliched indicates that it is an overused concept or model for a villain. I don't think it has been....Like I say. He reminds me of one of my favourites...The Joker. And having this in the Star Wars universe makes me about wet my pants with excitement.

But this is all just a personal preference. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong. It just differs to mine totally

Obi-Wan has been in at least half the season if not more as one of the main characters, not sure why you think he's underused.  I mean, he was in the Bounty-Hunter arc as well.

I maybe just mis-remembering. The first few stories hardly featured Obi Wan and Anakin and I remember this being an issue with me at the time....but yeah. You're right. They have used him more towards the back end of this Season.

And I'm not saying Ventress or Maul had to die this episode, especially since I think Ventress' arc is going an interesting route, but Maul's character I think could have been done so much better.

I keep saying this, but the lack of tension just makes these episodes so dull. And its the only thing these episodes have to go on because clearly the drama isn't a big concern of the clone wars either. 

I have done nothing other than agree with you about the lack of consequence this fight could have. We knew that all of them would be safe all along and it should have been handled differently. I am of the opinion that this was have been an awesome mid season re-introduction. But was never a season finale.

This show is lacking this season.  The fact that they had to resurrect Maul makes me think they are running out of ideas and these last couple of episodes seems to prove my thought on this matter.  I'm not even sure why I'm expecting so much out of Star Wars at this point, especially after the prequels.  False hopes I suppose.

I don't think it is lack of idea's at all. It is as much a part of appeasing the fans who complained for years that Maul was killed off too early as it was a money making exercise. The kids are going to go ape for Maul figures!! And, as a business, I don't blame Lucasfilm. Especially when I enjoyed it so much.

I'm not saying my opinion is any more valid than yours for any of this. It just differs....But please keep in mind when typing your opinions that by simply dismissing other peoples opinions outright, you could actually be offending them somewhat.[/spoiler]

[Rico]

I think it's fine for people to have differing opinions on what they like or didn't like about this season of Clone Wars - as long as they are expressed as opinions.  I talked a bit about the series on a recent podcast.  I've always felt that George Lucas painted himself in a corner with both the prequels and the animated Clone Wars series.  There is only so much he can do and it limits who can be in danger, what will happen, etc.  I still enjoy the series quite a bit, but I can see how that would turn off some fans.  My hope is they introduce more new characters that allows them to do some things that are a bit more unexpected in the future.

[Bryancd]

I think it's fine for people to have differing opinions on what they like or didn't like about this season of Clone Wars - as long as they are expressed as opinions.  I talked a bit about the series on a recent podcast.  I've always felt that George Lucas painted himself in a corner with both the prequels and the animated Clone Wars series.  There is only so much he can do and it limits who can be in danger, what will happen, etc.  I still enjoy the series quite a bit, but I can see how that would turn off some fans.  My hope is they introduce more new characters that allows them to do some things that are a bit more unexpected in the future.

I agree and I think they have due a terrific job with doing just that with new characters such as Ahsoka, Ventress, Cade Bane, ect. I am engaged enough by them to be able to allow the show to have dramatic impact despite the fact that we know the eventual outcome for the film based characters.

And Tim decided to post what he referred to as a rant against the show in the thread and should expect that it might upset some people and that's how we got here. I make no apologies for defending the show and being entirely put off by his long, negative comment. Get over it. If you go read the last 2 pages, you can see I wasn't even responding to Tim, Ori did a fine job and I left it at that. Then Tim comes back and directly challenges me to defend if I think this season is any good. I don't appreciate being baited like that and that crap pissed me off.

[ChrisMC]

Every word of what you just said I could not disagree with more. I have zero interest trying to point out the holes in your argument, just go and be happy...or whatever.

So are you saying then, that the last couple of episodes of The Clone Wars are the best we've had so far?

King

Not to pile on...I happen to enjoy the show alot...but something I've noticed with many folks is that things are either the BEST THING EVER or complete crap. I think this season has been fun, nothing life-changing, but an enjoyable way to have Star Wars on TV for 20 minutes or so. All 4 of my kids love it, from 14-3, and we all watch it together. That's a good thing.

Plus, I'm OLD enough to remember when Star Wars on TV meant the Ewok Adventure or....The Star Wars holiday sepcial. Perspective helps immensely!  ;D

[ori-STUDFARM]

Not to pile on...I happen to enjoy the show alot...but something I've noticed with many folks is that things are either the BEST THING EVER or complete crap. I think this season has been fun, nothing life-changing, but an enjoyable way to have Star Wars on TV for 20 minutes or so. All 4 of my kids love it, from 14-3, and we all watch it together. That's a good thing.

Plus, I'm OLD enough to remember when Star Wars on TV meant the Ewok Adventure or....The Star Wars holiday sepcial. Perspective helps immensely!  ;D

All of this^

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Then Tim comes back and directly challenges me to defend if I think this season is any good. I don't appreciate being baited like that and that crap pissed me off.

Then don't tell me to let the door hit my ass on the way out and I won't throw bait like that.  That phrase is an incredibly fanboy thing to say and it does piss me off because to me it sounds like people can't handle criticism and they want everyone who does criticize something to get out.  That is my viewpoint, whether that's what you intended in your post or not. 

I, however, could have phrased that sentence better, but I was a little angry at being showed the door and told to get out of the thread because my opinion is now meaningless.  That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard that when you quit watching something your opinion is meaningless on what you just watched. 


In reply to Ori-Studfarm: I never intended to make it sound like fact and I do apologize to you for making it sound that way.  I will try and phrase my sentences better in the future.  In regards to your latest posting:
[spoiler]I'm not into collectibles so the whole Darth Maul collectible thing is.....well, just not in my field of interest.  I can certainly understand Lucasfilm business reasons but that doesn't mean I have to like it.  *shrug*

And I hear you on the rest of what you said.  Ok, granted the Sith would use emotions against the Jedi, but my main irritation comes from Obi-Wan answering him with anger, I figured he was past that by now, I mean, that is why they call him a Jedi Master. 

But yes agreed

[/spoiler]

King

[Bryancd]

Not to pile on...I happen to enjoy the show alot...but something I've noticed with many folks is that things are either the BEST THING EVER or complete crap. I think this season has been fun, nothing life-changing, but an enjoyable way to have Star Wars on TV for 20 minutes or so. All 4 of my kids love it, from 14-3, and we all watch it together. That's a good thing.

Plus, I'm OLD enough to remember when Star Wars on TV meant the Ewok Adventure or....The Star Wars holiday sepcial. Perspective helps immensely!  ;D

All of this^

X3 and I wish I had kids right now I could enjoy it with them as well. Somewhat OT but I was listening to the ForceCast today on my run and their tribute to Ralph McQuarrie. I can remember so clearly getting the Art of Star Wars, the Blueprints, and the production painting folio and how those images influenced me. It great to see a lot of that carried forward in the visual style within the CLONE WARS.

And Tim, that phrase is older then I am, it pre-dates the nonsense of "fanboy" by decades. And you are welcome to share your opinion in the future if you are watching the show. If not, as you have gone out of your way to big show about, then don't come back and opine on it. Is that simple enough? I have lost interest in reading your comments on this show as they have become nothing but negative and I don't care for your tone. If yo were discussing the episodes with some semblance of balance I could appreciate them more, but you just crap all over something I enjoy very much and I am sick of it. So you want to post hate on the CLONE WARS constantly and now I feel like fighting back and telling you to piss off.

[Dangelus]

Wow. I'm glad I don't watch Clone Wars now lol.

I do think Tim is entitled to voice his opinion though. After all he is a Star Wars fan and he PAID to watch this series. That makes him Lucas's favourite type of Star Wars fan! ;)

[Bryancd]

I do think Tim is entitled to voice his opinion though.

I agree, but if it's a perpetual diatribe of crap, he should be a big boy and accept the consequences. And if he's not going to watch, then I think it's safe to assume he won't be jumping back in to continue to share his negative views. Here's the thing, being positive about something and deriving enjoyment from it doesn't hurt anyone. Constantly attacking something someone else enjoys does the opposite. Sure, nothing is perfect and a balanced critic of the good and the bad is fine but to make a big to do about how bad the show is and how he's declaring his exit from watching it, it's a bit too much. Spare me the drama and just go already.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

You really consider my criticisms of the show as hating?  Then at this point no matter how I defend myself this discussion is pointless.  I'm not here to crap all over the Clone Wars and I have not "hated" on the Clone Wars this entire season either and have no plans to hate on it in the future.  I have expressed my supreme disappointment with how its gone, though gave my kudos for what they did right.  And yeah, its negative the majority of my comments because I'm not happy with my investment into the Clone Wars.  My "Diatribe of crap". 

Heck, I even paid for this series, the only show in the past couple of years I've done that, exempting advertisements of course.  It seems downright stupid to buy something that I intend to hate on.

King

[Dangelus]

Not all of what Tim wrote registered with me as I haven't been following the series but it didn't ALL seem negative to me.

I think it is fair to say Bryan based on previous conversations we have had that you are sensitive when it comes to this subject and generally are not interested in discussing problems / criticisms when it comes to the Star Wars franchise. That's your prerogative. I still think others are entitled to voice their opinion, regardless how negative, as long as it isn't offensive.

I would suggest you review some of the comments you made in the "Terra Nova" thread and see if you think they are any less negative than Tim's Clone Wars observations. :)

[Bryancd]

I discussed both the good and the bad in that series. I never was hating on that show. And I think your are mistaken in regards to what you perceive as a sensitivity regarding the franchise. To be honest, I just very much disagree with your views Dan which you have expressed. No big deal, but don't try and characterize my feelings beyond that.

[Dangelus]

I discussed both the good and the bad in that series. I never was hating on that show. And I think your are mistaken in regards to what you perceive as a sensitivity regarding the franchise. To be honest, I just very much disagree with your views Dan which you have expressed. No big deal, but don't try and characterize my feelings beyond that.

As Tim has discussed the good and bad of Clone Wars from what I can see.

I know you disagree with me but I don't know why. I mostly get "I like it and that's all I care about" feel from you and that's fine. Not everybody enjoys debating. This is where I get the perceptions of your feelings. I am confused with hostility of your last sentence though.

[Bryancd]

I know you disagree with me but I don't know why. I mostly get "I like it and that's all I care about" feel from you and that's fine. Not everybody enjoys debating. This is where I get the perceptions of your feelings. I am confused with hostility of your last sentence though.

Oh, I just take a bit of umbrage when someone I may not know well on a more personal makes a judgement call on what me feelings are...which you just did again. :) But always rest assured I don't honestly take anything personally or to heart and in general simply move on and forget about it. Do enjoy a good row now and again as well. And you don't even watch the show and are clearly here to simply make mischief.  :boxing

[Bryancd]

Oh, and back on topic. Have to give a hat's off to...Tim! He called that they would not directly address the how did Maul survived being cut in half and they sure didn't beyond Mauls comments about hate keeping him alive. So if I were to give this episode a ding, it would be for that. Apparently it is addressed in the new Darth Maul short story I have pending in my Kindle, but that's kind of a cheap and easy way out, IMO. They certainly can address it next season and I hope they do. Personally, I can just accept he somehow survived and move and enjoy his return, but it does beg the question. Without a lower half, traveling to the junk planet must have been a real challenge!